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[Split thread] Discussion on the OTT (and related matters)
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Dr Fruitcake
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:11 am    Post subject: [Split thread] Discussion on the OTT (and related matters) Reply with quote

This was split from the "topic treasury candidate program" thread - please see latest posts.

chzrm3 wrote:
People pewping on other people's harmless fun = gheyyYyYyyYyYYyYy

Surely you don't honestly think we're locking the threads just to be spiteful? I know you guys are all mature enough to understand the difference between "harmless fun" and cluttering up a board meant for intelligent discussion with numerous identical nonsensical topics.

We're not saying there's no place for nonsense on this forum! In fact, the astute may well notice that the topic that found its way into Gobbledygook hasn't actually been locked. HMMM.
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Damian
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose there's more novelty to that than simply going into the OTT because no one is really going to find the OTT amusing at all. It has no luster anymore. But that's irrelevant, I was just pondering that.

Personally I know it's "omg bad" because "a topic not intended for intelligent discussion in the intelligent discussion forum? NOES", in the sense that it's "against the rules". But personally, I only made my thread because I thought it was ridiculous the way you guys sounded in response to it. Honestly, is it such a serious crime and offense that you have to make yourself sound like a prick when you lock it? I felt that much more inclined to make a parody topic when I read that. I also think there's a difference between wanting to keep a forum clean and anally locking every bit of fun the members have outside of the OTT.

But hey that's me. Your call, dudes, I'm not the one with power. (ps i know html also if you want to mod or admin me i am cooler than chizarm3 which means i be better mod than him. lol)

Le edit: Ok, so I just saw the new one that Dagron apparently moved to Gobbledygook. That you even replied to. So why did the other three get viciously locked by an angry admin instead of being moved like Dagron did? If your solitary beef was its location that seems a-pretty-pretty dumb.
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chzrm3
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Fruitcake wrote:
chzrm3 wrote:
People pewping on other people's harmless fun = gheyyYyYyyYyYYyYy

Surely you don't honestly think we're locking the threads just to be spiteful? I know you guys are all mature enough to understand the difference between "harmless fun" and cluttering up a board meant for intelligent discussion with numerous identical nonsensical topics.

We're not saying there's no place for nonsense on this forum! In fact, the astute may well notice that the topic that found its way into Gobbledygook hasn't actually been locked. HMMM.


Sure, but it's just things like Lester's thread being locked with the proclamation "You are not funny" that seems 'wtfish'.

And yeah, Damian's right - the OTT has lost its magic. I mean it's still a fun thread, but it's not really the end-all be-all of posting that it's often made out to be. Yet, when we make threads like outside of the OTT like that, they usually get locked.

I have to agree with Damian too, the reactions are pretty 'O_o'. I mean, take a thread like Pubic hair - someone was creeped out by it, so it got locked. That's fine. But when you look at some of the other threads that've been locked for 'violating' the rules, I think the only guy that was upset was CM.

It just seems weird to enforce rules on things like this, when it's not really killing the board. And I could understand if you signed on one day and saw 3 pages of "Disca-whatever", but the general trend was that someone would make one, it'd get locked, and someone would make another. So the locking was kind of a catalyst for the new threads. ?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A catalyst provides an alternate pathway for the reaction with a lower activation energy.

^chemistry revision

er
The only reason I made one was because CM said that the next person to make one would get a warning and I thought I'd test it because I'm just a rebellious little kid at heart and on the surface and ALL OVER REALLY apart from my massive man-sized penis
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damian wrote:
I also think there's a difference between wanting to keep a forum clean and anally locking every bit of fun the members have outside of the OTT.

I just want to point out that "fun" isn't synonymous with "pointless topics with single-word/emoticon posts". But, since that's the sort of topic in question, I'll just reiterate that it has its designated place. We don't lock nonsense threads posted in Gobbledygook, since that's where the rules state that they belong.

Damian wrote:
So why did the other three get viciously locked by an angry admin instead of being moved like Dagron did? If your solitary beef was its location that seems a-pretty-pretty dumb.

Having not been directly responsible, the only reason I can offer is individual inconsistency. However, speaking for myself, my only beef was, in fact, that the threads were posted on the Misc Board. We're just trying to "keep the forum clean", as you said. What's so dumb about a desire for organization?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:17 am    Post subject: LAWL Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
The only reason I made one was because CM said that the next person to make one would get a warning and I thought I'd test it because I'm just a rebellious little kid at heart and on the surface and ALL OVER REALLY apart from my massive man-sized penis


I was actually gonna make one to test his mettle, but if he didn't warn you then MEH.

It'd be awesome if the warnings system was user-generated as well... like we could each use one of them a week. (Except then izzhov would've gotten perma-banned in his first month on the forums, and we would never have come to [s:6e5bb76fff]plot to kill[/s:6e5bb76fff] appreciate him.)
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No read comprehension is not your strong point so I'll you a picture for you. -ubeenhad, just before he a picture for me[/quote]

[quote="Wormy"]I wish I could supply, as everyone else as, good news regarding my love life but sadly not as I am currently shagging a fat girl until I find someone better. [/quote]
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dr Fruitcake wrote:
Damian wrote:
I also think there's a difference between wanting to keep a forum clean and anally locking every bit of fun the members have outside of the OTT.

I just want to point out that "fun" isn't synonymous with "pointless topics with single-word/emoticon posts". But, since that's the sort of topic in question, I'll just reiterate that it has its designated place. We don't lock nonsense threads posted in Gobbledygook, since that's where the rules state that they belong.

Damian wrote:
So why did the other three get viciously locked by an angry admin instead of being moved like Dagron did? If your solitary beef was its location that seems a-pretty-pretty dumb.

Having not been directly responsible, the only reason I can offer is individual inconsistency. However, speaking for myself, my only beef was, in fact, that the threads were posted on the Misc Board. We're just trying to "keep the forum clean", as you said. What's so dumb about a desire for organization?


Okay, we'll chalk it up to individual inconsistency. That does seem to be the biggest issue here. o_O I don't have a problem with organization, I'm OCD about keeping things organized a lot of the time. What I was calling dumb was the ridiculous reactions you guys had as opposed to what Dagron did, i.e. move the damn thread. Razz That would've solved your problem much better, possibly more efficiently, and you all could've potentially saved yourselves some face, if you could call it that. But yes, it does seem to be more of "different mods, different actions taken". Maybe you all ought to sort that out...? Sometime or another. This has happened before.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just want to say, I don't think its wrong to disagree with anyone on the moderation staff. I've locked topics people think should've stay open as well. But if you do disagree, or think our response was inappropriate, the thing to do is to PM one of the mods.

We're all reasonable people, and I think we can reach an understanding by talking about it, gey as such a solution might be.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
What I was calling dumb was the ridiculous reactions you guys had as opposed to what Dagron did, i.e. move the damn thread.

The reason for this was because we set up Gobbledygook as a game-thread board, with the exception of the OTT. That's just how it is. You think I'm being silly about locking threads, but in the process it's you who's being an arse by publicly whining about every act of moderation you don't see eye to eye with us on.

At which point, the responsible thing to do is:
Quote:
But if you do disagree, or think our response was inappropriate, the thing to do is to PM one of the mods.

WHY do people not do this? If you have a problem with my moderation, I'll be happy to explain to you why I did what I did.

That does not mean I will agree with you or reverse my decision (although it's possible you can show me something I overlooked).

That does not mean you can appeal to some other mod or to Fruity and expect us to get at each others' throats over it. In general, we respect each others' decisions.

And it most definitely does not mean that public ridicule is an appropriate response. This needs to stop. I... how do you want me to say it? I've tried being nice, explaining the situation, time and time again, and I almost never hand out warnings. And all I have to show for it is you people thinking I'm some old nasty curmudgeon because I'm the only one around to moderate half the time. It's completely unfair. And I have to ask myself, exactly what do I get out of being nice to you guys? You throw it back into my face at every turn. Help me out here, people.

As for this fourth thread, well, I haven't seen it yet. Really, it doesn't belong in Gobbledygook any more than it belongs here. But like I said, we respect each others' decisions, so I'll leave it alive for awhile longer (just as long as it doesn't turn into a flaming session).
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, guys, posting thread after thread of "Dis-----ed" and single emoticons isn't funny. This, on the other hand, is.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um guys I think some of you here need to learn a short lesson

1. This is the internet
2. The internet does not need to be taken seriously
3. That is all



4. ????
5. PROFIT

did I do it right
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:24 pm    Post subject: Dun dun dun! Reply with quote

Quote:
As for this fourth thread, well, I haven't seen it yet. Really, it doesn't belong in Gobbledygook any more than it belongs here.


I think this is something that deserves attention.

Namely: Why not? If it can't be on misc or gobbleedoo or video game threads or media madness or anything else, it means it can't be anywhere, and I re-iterate - why not? If it was a thread called "I hate minorities" or "ten ways to kill people violently", OK. But it's not! So I'm curious to understand the logic of it.
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[quote="Someone's sig on the AoC forums"]THis game really is more geared towards the adult then, teenbeat wow. This mmo makes u think, somthing a teenager hates to do. -Skopas, eloquently discussing how grown up AoC is.

No read comprehension is not your strong point so I'll you a picture for you. -ubeenhad, just before he a picture for me[/quote]

[quote="Wormy"]I wish I could supply, as everyone else as, good news regarding my love life but sadly not as I am currently shagging a fat girl until I find someone better. [/quote]


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damian wrote:
Maybe you all ought to sort that out...?

You mean, like... talking? With, like... words? But... but the other mods smell funny. Sad

*cough*

Yeah, rest assured we're [s:f83a5bdad0]at each other's throats[/s:f83a5bdad0] talking about it. Lick Lune
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CM, all I'll say is it's incredibly difficult to approach moderators, particularly ones like you (that's not an insult; just your personality and moderation style), with complaints and stuff via PM. It feels like it would be pointless to even say anything. At least that's my general vibe. I prefer to take it more publicly because then you at least have some potential support backing you. I would also expect most people to take that more seriously.

Shrug. I just think you guys should get your own moderation guidelines set straight between each other, relatively. I have nothing else to argue or "whine" about. (EDIT: Oh, Kevin posted. Rgrtht.)
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheese Monkey, you're a pearl.

I knew it wasn't funny. I did it anyway.
There'd be no appeal to this sort of thing if I didn't know perfectly well it was gonna get locked.

Does that make me some sort of bastard? Well yes, I suppose it does.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheese Monkey wrote:
And it most definitely does not mean that public ridicule is an appropriate response. This needs to stop. I... how do you want me to say it? I've tried being nice, explaining the situation, time and time again, and I almost never hand out warnings. And all I have to show for it is you people thinking I'm some old nasty curmudgeon because I'm the only one around to moderate half the time. It's completely unfair. And I have to ask myself, exactly what do I get out of being nice to you guys? You throw it back into my face at every turn. Help me out here, people.

Moderating more doesn't mean that you're moderating better. When no one but you wants a thread locked and you lock it, you're not being nice to the people who wanted to post in it. I'm not sure why you think otherwise, since we've been over this the last few times you've over-moderated. In fact, I recall you saying that "purposeless" threads couldn't be posted in Gobbledygook because it was a game forum. In this thread, Fruity has said otherwise (and Die Gron has shown otherwise through his actions), so it looks like you're demonstrating a degree of autonomy that doesn't jive with the other modmins.

Oh, and


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
CM, all I'll say is it's incredibly difficult to approach moderators, particularly ones like you (that's not an insult; just your personality and moderation style), with complaints and stuff via PM. It feels like it would be pointless to even say anything. At least that's my general vibe.

I'm not sure where you got that idea, but you can rest assured that vibe is unfounded. Smile

Quote:
I prefer to take it more publicly because then you at least have some potential support backing you. I would also expect most people to take that more seriously.

If by "support" you mean "more people jumping on the mod's back." We can't allow this, I'm sorry. Issues of moderation are, by necessity, not supposed to turn into a public circus.

Quote:
I knew it wasn't funny. I did it anyway.
There'd be no appeal to this sort of thing if I didn't know perfectly well it was gonna get locked.

Then perhaps the thing to do would have been to not do it at all? Since, y'know, that's kind of the point of locking the original one in the first place? Making another one isn't protest, it's spitting in the face of the decision.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:44 pm    Post subject: LAWLS Reply with quote

CM, check out exhibit A.

http://www.fcmidi.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=395&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=81cafd4a5ab94bc5e9f1a49824d93e73

A thread that everyone enjoyed. Nobody uttered a single complaint in that thread, nobody was offended or upset. But, on page 3, you came in saying "hey, should I lock this?" Everyone said "No thnx." Some people (like tinytim) practically begged for you to not lock it. But then you locked it.

So you saying "I'm not sure where you got that idea, but you can rest assured that vibe is unfounded." is wrong - that's where we get that notion. When a mod asks us a question about whether or not a thread should be locked, we all respond unanimously with "no", and said mod takes that as a green flag for locking, it doesn't exactly give way to an atmosphere like you're suggesting.
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No read comprehension is not your strong point so I'll you a picture for you. -ubeenhad, just before he a picture for me[/quote]

[quote="Wormy"]I wish I could supply, as everyone else as, good news regarding my love life but sadly not as I am currently shagging a fat girl until I find someone better. [/quote]
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, you're encouraging people like me to do what I've come to term as "Cheese Monkey baiting". The topic isn't funny, but the subsequent Judge Dredd-intervention is...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Um guys I think some of you here need to learn a short lesson

1. This is the internet
2. The internet does not need to be taken seriously
3. That is all


Ahem I think you mighta skipped class guys but this really is important so shut up and stop taking everything so seriously
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's really obnoxious. True in a lot of ways, but obnoxious.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
A thread that everyone enjoyed. Nobody uttered a single complaint in that thread, nobody was offended or upset. But, on page 3, you came in saying "hey, should I lock this?" Everyone said "No thnx." Some people (like tinytim) practically begged for you to not lock it. But then you locked it.

So you saying "I'm not sure where you got that idea, but you can rest assured that vibe is unfounded." is wrong - that's where we get that notion. When a mod asks us a question about whether or not a thread should be locked, we all respond unanimously with "no", and said mod takes that as a green flag for locking, it doesn't exactly give way to an atmosphere like you're suggesting.

I didn't lock it because you said "no," I locked it because I tried to give you guys some suggestions for letting it die naturally, but you wanted it another way. But that way wasn't going to happen, because at the end of the day those threads don't have a place here. It was a bit like trying to feed a toddler, and you give them a choice between two healthy options but all they do is scream "CAKE! CAKE!!" -_-

Btw, we're discussing the role of the OTT in the mod cave right now, and so I thought I'd ask you guys: if you really believe the OTT has "lost its luster," what do you propose we do with it? We could recreate it and Treasury the old one if you like. But we can't delete it in favor of threads like the "Dis" series, because that goes against why we have it in the first place. Again, as Orby wrote out:
Quote:
Keep only one Off-Topic Topic. Contrary to popular belief, much of Gobbledygook consists of game threads with little actual complete insane posting randomness (although The Black Orb will try to tell you otherwise). If you feel like posting something totally crazy and irrevelant to a game thread, do it on the Off-Topic Topic. Keep in mind game threads that appear to have too few boundaries as to almost imitate the Off-Topic topic are not allowed (for example, a "post a random word thread" is not a valid game thread due to its similarity to the Off-Topic Topic).

And all these problems keep arising because you guys stubbornly refuse to acknowledge this rule.

Lester Square wrote:
Yeah, you're encouraging people like me to do what I've come to term as "Cheese Monkey baiting". The topic isn't funny, but the subsequent Judge Dredd-intervention is...

Don't think I don't understand what you're doing. The problem is, what am I supposed to do? Not explain what I did? Apparently the only two options available to me are "tolerate gratuitous jokes just for moderating something," or "let them have their way every time."

You don't "bait" a damned moderator. It's ridiculous. No other forum would ever allow this. But I hope you've enjoyed it, because it's going to stop. The other mods are behind me on this, too - whether or not you agree with an act of moderation does not permit you to do any of this.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: XD LOL SO RANDOM! Reply with quote

Sam wrote:
Ahem I think you mighta skipped class guys but this really is important so shut up and stop taking everything so seriously


While I agree with 'let's not take things seriously on a forum we go to for fun', that mindset can't work unless everyone's on the same page.

Edit: CM, you never addressed my initial question. Until you do, this conversation isn't going to go anywhere. Because, look.

Quote:
But that way wasn't going to happen, because at the end of the day those threads don't have a place here.


Yes they do. CM, this is not a job. This is not a forum for school, or work, or something. This is for fun. Those threads are fun. People enjoy and participate in them. Therefore, they have a place here.

So please, please, please. Can you explain to me, and everyone else in this thread, why you adhere so much to this 'no-nonsense' rule?

I'd be all for treasury-ing the OTT if it meant we could post threads without having to worry about 'Is this not serious enough? Will it be locked?!?!?! Shocked ', and that kind of stuff.

Quote:
I didn't lock it because you said "no," I locked it because I tried to give you guys some suggestions for letting it die naturally, but you wanted it another way. But that way wasn't going to happen, because at the end of the day those threads don't have a place here. It was a bit like trying to feed a toddler, and you give them a choice between two healthy options but all they do is scream "CAKE! CAKE!!" -_-


My point was that Damian's belief, being that he cannot approach you and expect you to understand where he's coming from, is based on actions like what happened in that thread. You kind of completely ignored that, and just compared us to screaming children. I'd say 'case closed' as far as 'Is CM receptive to criticism?' is concerned. : P
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[quote="Someone's sig on the AoC forums"]THis game really is more geared towards the adult then, teenbeat wow. This mmo makes u think, somthing a teenager hates to do. -Skopas, eloquently discussing how grown up AoC is.

No read comprehension is not your strong point so I'll you a picture for you. -ubeenhad, just before he a picture for me[/quote]

[quote="Wormy"]I wish I could supply, as everyone else as, good news regarding my love life but sadly not as I am currently shagging a fat girl until I find someone better. [/quote]


Last edited by chzrm3 on Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:07 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Sam
is in the billiard room with a revolver


Joined: 24 Jun 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damian wrote:
That's really obnoxious. True in a lot of ways, but obnoxious.


I know, so am I, as anyone who knows me will tell you.
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Upsilon
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 4:12 pm    Post subject: Re: XD LOL SO RANDOM! Reply with quote

chzrm3 wrote:
I'd be all for treasury-ing the OTT if it meant we could post threads without having to worry about 'Is this not serious enough? Will it be locked?!?!?! Shocked ', and that kind of stuff.


Whoa, hold on a second. Don't do this, it would be extremely silly. Getting rid of the OTT to save joke thread security would be like cutting off your face to make your toes slightly more attractive.
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